Difference between revisions of "Talk:Tutorial: Apollo 11"

Latest revision as of 19:14, 17 October 2013

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Hi, I don't know if this tutorial is finished, but isn't it better to burn prograde when you are between Mün an Kerbin like here? —XZise (talk) 11:01, 27 February 2013 (CST)

Hello XZise. Thank you for your interest in my tutorials. That actually depends on if you ended up on a prograde or a retrograde orbit around the Mün. When you are retrograde, it's best to accelerate at the most distant point, while when you are prograde, the most energy-efficient point is the point where you are closest. I should mention that. --Crush (talk) 16:05, 27 February 2013 (CST)

Fixed. --Crush (talk) 03:39, 28 February 2013 (CST)

I can't build this ship

Hey, I've really tried to build the ship you've described using all the parts but it just isn't possible going by the parts you've got listed used. In the screenshot, I can see you've got rockomax connectors on stage one (connected to stage 2 as well, it seems, although we aren't instructed to do this at all) where there aren't any listed in the instructions, among other things. If I use ONLY the parts you've listed, following your instruction, I get an incredibly unstable ship that can't make it into orbit without disaster. Is there any way you could improve the instructions for building this ship, and perhaps include the parts in the screenshot? and perhaps provide a higher res screenshot. The way it is now, I can't seem to even get the ship built yet, and I really want to try out this mission. Yazman (talk) 07:26, 2 April 2013 (CDT)

Hello Yazman. Thank you very much for your feedback. Could you publish the .craft file so I can see what mistake exactly you made? That would help me much to spot where the instructions are unclear. --Crush (talk) 13:21, 2 April 2013 (CDT)

Hello again, I fixed some mistakes in the description in the first stage. I hope that this was the reason you couldn't replicate it. Otherwise please post your .craft file. --Crush (talk) 13:30, 2 April 2013 (CDT)

Yo Crush, here's my .craft file. Take a look and let me know where I failed miserably: mediafire.com/?a20y67hlcrbgn1k Yazman (talk) 01:31, 6 April 2013 (CDT)

Hello Yazman. Your main mistake was that you used Hydraulic Detachment Manifolds to link the four outer rockets of the 2nd stage to the central rocket. They are supposed to be attached directly to the central rocket. --Crush (talk) 11:21, 6 April 2013 (CDT)

Hey Crush, I too have been having some problems with this ship. I've built it and get it into circular orbit, but it seems I'm missing a decoupler somewhere during the docking stage. Mind giving it a look? http://www.mediafire.com/?xx7c8o9od6guj8a Dukat (talk) 22:55, 15 April 2013 (CDT)

As an addendum, I want to say it appears I've built the craft up to spec - I mean I've gone through the lists several times and everything you mentioned on the page appears to be included and in the right places. So in the instructions during the docking phase, you specifically say not to use the stack seperator - but that is the only way to seperate the CMS from the LM, and of course using the stack seperator results in a very difficult docking procedure due to an extraneous piece that comes off which blocks the CMS from the LM. Should I add in a decoupler to the docking port just beneath the stack seperator? It just seems there is something missing from the tutorial. Dukat (talk) 10:04, 18 April 2013 (CDT)

Hello, Crush. Been enjoying going through the tutorial series; the Gemini 6A and 7 mission in particular really gave me a sense of accomplishment...

Anyway, I too have been having problems with getting the Saturn V replica into orbit. Granted, I've only tried two launches so far. I had a structural failure on the first stage during the first launch resulting in catastrophic mission failure (saved the crew); I replaced the TR-18As with Rockomax Brand Decouplers between the first and second stages and I replaced the TR-18A between the second and third stage as well since that's how the picture looked. Second time the structural fault occurred at the TR-18A holding the third stage to the LM after first stage jettison, also resulting in catastrophic mission failure (saved the crew again). Any thoughts on what may be going on? I'm not in a position at the moment where I can post my .craft file but I'll do so as soon as I get an opportunity. Capi3101a (talk) 08:42, 19 April 2013 (CDT)

Update: Had a successful launch; I think the key to avoiding a structural fault/catastrophic mission failure is to "nurse" the first two stages when you're making turns. Make the gravity turn gradually. If faults keep on happening, figure out where in the after-action report and shore it up with more struts.

I haven't actually landed on the Mün with this design yet, though; inadvertently did the "Kerpollo 13" suggestion first. Learned a lot about the nature of docked ships that way, actually... Capi3101a (talk) 08:35, 22 April 2013 (CDT)

I tried building this ship in v0.19.1, and it wouldn't fit. The lowest stage has 3 fuel tanks in height, and then an engine. The lowest tank could be placed, but it was heavily clipping through the floor. The engine could not be added at all. Chezzik (talk) 09:30, 21 May 2013 (CDT)

I've just tried replicating the rocket. I've managed to build the middle part of the first stage without the tank clipping the floor. There was only a small gap left, but I managed to get the engine underneath. For the outer parts of the stage I had to copy the inner part and move it a bit lower, because the Decouplers would have collided otherwise. In that case the tanks and engines were in the floor, but on the Launchpad the rocket was above ground again. If the problem you have is about the middle part, you should check if you accidentally put in an extra decoupler or used a wrong engine somewhere. --Dgelessus (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2013 (CDT)

How did you start the ship? I started with the Command Module, so to move the ship up, I have to grab that Command Pod to move it. Did you possibly start with the Landing Module instead?

I was not able to get either the middle of the ship or the outside portions on. I'll give it another try tonight. I don't really know what I may have done differently, but it just won't fit. Chezzik (talk) 11:05, 23 May 2013 (CDT)

I built the vehicle according to your specifications and am having trouble getting past the first stage. During launch, I don't seem to have enough stability to keep the nose pointed correctly, and the rocket starts a strange bending oscillation that amplifies to the point where the support struts rip off the protective nose cones and some fuel tanks with it. I can never get above 10k before I end up fully pitched over headed towards the ground. I have tinkered with the canard placement to see if it was due to lack of control authority based on the positioning on the 1st stage. I have attempted launch with and without RCS, with and without SAS, and with and without autopilot (MechJab). I am not certain how to post the .craft file but can follow instructions if there is an easy way to do it. BTW thanks for these tutorials--they've been really fun! Phaeton84 (talk)

I have the same problem. It seems so unstable that I can't get it into orbit, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Here's a craft file: http://thefilebay.com/3x8/Apollo_11.craft Warn (talk) 06:46, 24 July 2013 (CDT)

Hello again - quick update for 0.20. I've been having issues with the design again; it still telescopes the stack in the second stage more often than it makes orbit. I'm thinking about doing a redesign to put Skippers on the second and third ascent stages to see if that will help (it will reduce the TWR on the second stage to just under 1.2, which is slightly worse than the first stage but may solve the issues - it will reduce the third stage TWR to 0.88 but by then the payload should be in space). I'll let y'all know how this turns out; if it doesn't solve the problem, I might try an action group to lock the gimbals on the outboard engines of the second stage next. I'll keep y'all posted. Capi3101a (talk) 08:44, 26 June 2013 (CDT)

Updated vehicle for 0.21+

Following this inquiry on the KSP subreddit, I realized that the craft in this tutorial is somewhat outdated. Vehicles now need some means of regenerating electrical charge, which this Apollo/Saturn stack lacks. Further, new stock parts enable the lightening and shortening of the stack to provide better performance, fuel efficiency, and control authority. My own experimentation has resulted in this modified craft (.craft file available here) that is very well-behaved on launch in addition to accomplishing the entire flight profile of the original with fuel to spare (changes from the original are emphasized):

• Command Module
  • 1x Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port
  • 1x FL-R25 RCS Fuel Tank
  • 1x Mk1-2 Command Pod (primary command pod)
  • 2x Mk2-R Radial-Mount Parachute
• Service Module
  • 1x Rockomax Brand Decoupler
  • 1x Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank
  • 4x SP-L 1x6 Photovoltaic Panels
  • 8x RV-105 RCS Thruster Block (placed in radial quads on the Service Module equidistant from the center of mass for better control as fuel levels change)
  • 1x Rockomax "Poodle" Liquid Engine
• Landing Module
  • 1x TR-2C Stack Separator
  • 1x Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port
  • 1x FL-R25 RCS Fuel Tank
  • 1x Mk2 Lander-can (secondary pod, unmanned at launch)
  • 2x SP-W 2x3 Photovoltaic Panels
  • 4x EAS-4 Strut Connector (between lander-can and fuel tank of service module. Be careful not to obstruct the hatch!)
  • 4x RV-105 RCS Thruster Block
  • 1x Rockomax X200-8 Fuel Tank
  • 1x Telus Mobility Enhancer (place below the mini-ladder below the door)
  • 4x LT-2 Landing Strut
  • 1x LV-909 Liquid Fuel Engine
• Stage 3
  • 1x TR-18A Stack Decoupler
  • 1x RC-L01 Remote Guidance Unit (optional for collision avoidance or debris abatement maneuvers after translunar injection and jettison)
  • 1x Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank (formerly 2x)
  • 4x EAS-4 Strut Connector (between upper fuel tank and fuel tank of lander)
  • 1x Rockomax "Skipper" Liquid Engine (provides more than enough thrust for orbit circularization and translunar injection; is also lighter and has better ISP than the Mainsail, enabling us to cut to one tank on this stage)
• Stage 2
  • 1x Rockomax Brand Decoupler
  • 10x Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank (one stack of two in the center and four stacks of two mounted radially around it)
  • 24x EAS-4 Strut Connector (link each of the outer tank to its two horizontal neighbors and twice to the center tank - see image)
  • 4x Protective Rocket Nose Mk7
  • 4x EAS-4 Strut Connector (link each nose to the lower fuel tank of stage 3)
  • 4x RV-105 RCS Thruster Block (place as low as possible)
  • 5x Rockomax "Mainsail" Liquid Engine
• Stage 1
  • 5x Rockomax Brand Decoupler
  • 15x Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank (one stack of three in the center and four stacks mounted to the outer stacks of the stage above, not the center stage)
  • 36x EAS-4 Strut Connector (link each of the outer tanks to its two horizontal neighbors and twice to the center tank - see image)
  • 8x Standard Canard
  • 5x Rockomax "Mainsail" Liquid Engine

Cheers! --Valthonis (talk) 17:25, 9 August 2013 (CDT)

New design works great, thanks! (I posted that reddit question) --Durazell (talk) 08:40, 12 August 2013 (CDT)