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| − | == Style guide ==
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| − | Can we adopt [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Wikipedia's manual of style] as our own? — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 19:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | : This makes sense to me, I would assume we want to aim for a quality wiki. That said, I would be careful with sticking to the 'rules' too strictly, after all we should aim to cater for a 'tounge in cheeck' approach, fitting in with the comedy style of the game it self. [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 19:31, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | :: We do need a manual of style, but it needs to be something less formal. We don't need to be a scholarly source, we just need to have a consistent style. Stuff like links (<code><nowiki>[[IVA]]s</nowiki></code> instead of <code><nowiki>[[IVA|IVAs]]</nowiki></code>, which is enforced by RoboJeb already), tables, and other things that make it mildly easier to edit a page. -- [[User:N3X15|<span class="squad">N3X15</span>]] <sup class="plainlinks">([[Special:Contribs/N3X15|C]] · [[User_talk:N3X15|T]] · [{{fullurl:User:N3X15/Sig|action=edit}} E])</sup> 04:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | ::: wait... you prefer <nowiki>[[example]]s over [[example]]s</nowiki>? Oh lord! I think the first style looks ugly as sin because you end up with that one letter no part of the link, I much prefer the latter style. as for adopting a formal guide, I agree with you N3X15, as long as we have a consistent style, perhaps a page can be created where some of these guide lines can be added as they arise in very organic way? [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 08:41, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | :::: ah, I did not realise that the pluralising 's' will be considered part of the link, so we can disregard my complaints about that. [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 15:17, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | == Adding new namespaces ==
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| − | This is something that will require admin attention. Would it be possible for the 'Tutorials' namespace to be properly added to the system. It would also be usefully if there was a namespace along the line of 'API' or 'DevDocs'. Instructions on how to do this can be found [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Using_custom_namespaces here]. [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 10:37, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | * Done. -- [[User:N3X15|N3X15]] ([[User talk:N3X15|talk]]) 09:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | == English English or American English? ==
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| − | I would assume that American English is the preferred English for this wiki. Though, I think it should be stated clearly so that we can avoid ping-pong edits between American and English English. If we get to vote in this matter, I would prefer English English, on account of being English, but not that fussed overall. [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 08:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | * I don't see how theatre/theater, etc. would result in pingponging, as either are valid and aren't worth editing over. Best thing to do would be to leave rules instructing users not to bother editing minor dialect-specific things. As for measurements, we should be using metric anyway, as KSP deals with a lot of science (obviously). I'll (hopefully) start working on rules tomorrow. -- [[User:N3X15|N3X15]] ([[User talk:N3X15|talk]]) 09:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | == Units of measurement for part masses and engine thrust ==
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| − | At the moment, the game doesn't specify units of measure for part masses or engine thrusts. We should agree on what to show in the wiki. There has been '''[[User_talk:Elembis#Units_of_measure|some discussion]]''' on this, but I figured it'd be useful to get some more feedback and hopefully a consensus.
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| − | A Wikipedia-style vote, with discussion at the end, seems appropriate. =) Please cast your vote by putting your signature (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) in a list, and feel free to elaborate in comments at the ends of all the lists. =) — [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | sign with '<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>' to vote
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| − | ; Killograms (kg), newtons (N)
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| − | # [[User:Elembis|Elembis]] ([[User talk:Elembis|talk]]) 04:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # (your name here)
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| − | ; Metric tons (t), kilonewtons (kN)
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| − | # [[User:Jlmr|Jlmr]] ([[User talk:Jlmr|talk]]) 04:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # [[User:UmbralRaptor|UmbralRaptor]] ([[User talk:UmbralRaptor|talk]]) 05:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # [[User:Kreuzung|Kreuzung]] ([[User talk:Kreuzung|talk]]) 13:08, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # [[User:Kahlzun|Kahlzun]] ([[User talk:Kahlzun|talk]]) 08:03, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # (your name here)
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| − | ; Just like the game, no units
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| − | # [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 07:58, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | # (your name here)
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| − | : It's not really as much a matter of opinion, and as much as I enjoy the debate, it's a matter of simple physics! :) --[[User:Jlmr|Jlmr]] ([[User talk:Jlmr|talk]]) 04:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | : I'm starting to think that Elembis's premise 3 was wrong, and rocket parts/kerbals are in ''different'' mass units from the star/planets/moons. Given that we can't push planets around, this seems workable.
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| − | :: Considering the game does not specify units, why are we even having this debate? If anything, there should just a page on [[units]] explaining that the game does not define units, but that they appear to be consistent with treating them in kg and N. And let's not forget, working in kg-N or Mg-N does not matter, it is just a different scale, though I would avoid using 'tonne' or 'ton' as it is a stupid term that has a bazillian interpretations. Never known of any cases where someone was wondering if you meant a UK Kg or a USA Kg. This also is some what relevant to my question above, are we aiming for UK English or US English. [[User:Thecoshman|Thecoshman]] ([[User talk:Thecoshman|talk]]) 07:58, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | ::: There are multiple reasons to define the units. Several include: the wiki already defined them as kg and N (not physically possible), giving modders formulas to standardize the physical properties of new parts, converting realworld spacecraft into KSP, and above all, making the physics work on paper, the game already uses m/s L/s and meters as units of measure so it is not had to figure out that the units of measure for parts is in 1000's of kg and 1000's of N. I am not sure we should use kg and N, as it will involve a bit of work converting all the in-game part descriptions from tonnes to kg and from kN to N and probably confuse people who are looking at the in-game units and the wiki. Regardless, let's stick with SI as it is the unit already defined in-game for fuel consumption and acceleration. --[[User:Jlmr|Jlmr]] ([[User talk:Jlmr|talk]]) 19:54, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | '''Justification for t and kN (or 1000's kg and 1000's of N)''' This is a condensed version of all my arguments. --[[User:Jlmr|Jlmr]] ([[User talk:Jlmr|talk]]) 20:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
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| − | *An official NIST/SI publication: http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP330/sp330.pdf states that kilonewton (kN) is a valid SI unit to represent 1000 N and ton (t), while historically a non-SI unit, has been accepted for use in the SI system by [[w:CIPM|CIPM]] as a valid unit to represent 1000 kg for just over a century.
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| − | *We already know that the game uses SI units. These '''are''' specifically labeled: meters for units of distance, meters/sec for acceleration, liters for fuel volume, and liters/sec for fuel consumption.
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| − | *We know that the Mk1-2 Command Pod weighs 4 "units" from the in-game description. The command pod is roughly 2 m in height and 2 m in diameter. Calculating it's total volume gives us about 2.09 m3. Let's assume the capsule has 0.05 m (2 in) thick walls and subtract the interior void to get only the volume of the capsule walls. This gives us a volume of 1.80 m3.
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| − | **Knowing the volume of the walls, we can calculate the density of the material making up the capsule, taking the 4 in-game units to mean kg, this comes out to be about 13.79 kg/m3. Unfortunately, is about 72.29 times less dense than water at room temperature and closer in density to most gasses! Perhaps Kerbals have discovered a super strong gas-like substance to make spaceships from? =)
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| − | **However, if we take the 4 in-game units to mean metric tons, we get a density of around 13793.10 kg/m3, well within the range of the density of real building materials.
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| − | *The wikipage on [[Kerbin]] states it has a surface gravity of 9.81 m/s2, roughly that of Earth.
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| − | **Given this we can calculate the following. If measured in kilograms(kg), a "9 kg" Rockomax X200-16 Fuel Tank on Kerbin, having a surface gravity of 9.81 m/s2, would be roughly the size of a 48 oz coffee tin and only hold about 1.5 L of fuel. Unfortunately for our intrepid Kerbals, 1.5 L of fuel would not provide enough energy to lift a 9 kg payload through 75,000 m of atmosphere, much less a few hundred meters.
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| − | **If measured in metric tons, a "9 t" (9,000 kg) Rockomax X200-16 Fuel Tank under the same gravity, being about 0.67 m tall and 2 m in diameter, gives a volume of 2104.87 L, more than enough to hold the advertised 1600 L of fuel. Only a rocket engine with a thrust around 100 kN (100,000 N), could have any chance of lifting the 9 t (9,000 kg) fuel tank.
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| − | **Similarly, a substance weighing only 8 kg with a volume of 1,600 L has a density of 5 kg/m3, only about three times greater than the density of gaseous oxygen, and would not make an efficient fuel. Whereas, a fuel weighing 8 t with a volume of 1,600 L has a density of 5000 kg/m3, closer to a realistic rocket fuel.
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| − | *On the wiki pages we could just as easily say 4,000 kg instead of 4 t. However, this takes up unnecessary space on the page.
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| − | *I know it's only a mod, but MechJeb already uses kN and tons for it's calculations of mass and thrust... =)
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| − | == Forum links have changed ==
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| − | Old was kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/, new is forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/, which leads to 404s on some links on this page. --[[User:Kreuzung|Kreuzung]] ([[User talk:Kreuzung|talk]]) 13:00, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
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